Your 2019 Offseason Plan

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby kbg » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:05 pm

ILikeSonny09 wrote:No suspension for Reuben Foster. Fined two game paychecks. Better than most of you dared hope.

https://www.hogshaven.com/2019/4/12/183 ... by-the-nfl


correct.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:20 am

The more I think about this draft, the trickier it might be for us, especially if we give up a 1st or 2nd for Josh Rosen + having no 4th.

These are the positions : qb, rb , te, wr, c , og ,ot , dt, de, olb , ilb , cb , ss , fs
Of these : - though maybe not ideal, I think we can get away with skipping rb ,c , dt , de , ss
qb : to me we either trade for Rosen, or we wait until 2020...also fine with a day 3 guy if one is there we like
rb : with limited picks, I think we wait
te : Unless Hockenson drops to #15 and we still have that pick, I'm probably waiting until day 3
wr : Day 2 is the sweet spot for an impact guy, then day 3 for a dev one....this is why potentially losing Round 2 for Rosen hurts
c : no need, but I'm always good with an upgrade to the OL..prefer one of the C/G hybrids though more than someone only a C
g : big need here, mid-late Round 1 - Round 3 is where a starter will be found, again, depending on what picks we have, we might be forced to wait until Round 3. Should still be a starter, but risky taking that chance?
ot : def starter will be there until mid-2nd round, we might just have to roll with what we have this year, but hope we do add another somewhere
dt : I think we are set here
de : if value presents itself, maybe get another 5T , but I think we skip this...maybe get a guy in udfa
olb/edge : either Sweat/Burns/Allen in round 1, or we wait until Round 3 or later....tricky here
ilb : for me, its Devin White or look for a day 3 guy....we MIGHT be ok with what we have, but I hope we do add depth at least.
cb : I think we skip this until day 3, we have a decent young group.
ss : seems like we are set here, maybe a day 3 guy at best ?
fs : if we want a starter/impact guy, then I think Round 2 is the sweet spot ( Savage/Thornhill ).

^^ all of that is based on not knowing the potential of some our current roster guys ie: McKinzy/Smith at Edge for example. Or has one of the half dozen or so LG possibilities have developed...but I don't want to go into the season with guess/hope as our answer to LG.

So our dilemma is not having a 4th rounder ( great spot for TE for example ), mid 6th ( db depth ) and then possibly not having either our 1st or 2nd if we trade for Rosen. Losing our 1st rounder means we currently would have to wait until pick 46...and that would have to go to WR, FS or OL in my mind. I would NOT trade back from #46 .
Now if we keep our 1st while using #46 for Rosen, this is where things can get interesting. Either we grab our guy at #15, but then have to wait until #76 for our next pick and hope that a WR/OL is there that we like or we make a trade, which in this scenario I think is better for us. In looking at the trade value chart, some ideas :
OAK : #15 ( 1050 ) and #96 ( 116 ) for #24 ( 740 ) ,#35 (550 ) pretty close
MIN : #15 ( 1050 ) for #18 ( 900 ) and #81 (185 )...they NEED OL so I would try to squeeze them for #50 instead while we add #96
IND : #15 ( 1050 ) for #26 ( 700 ) and #34 ( 560 ) ...we don't make up the difference due to moving so far down.
NE : not sure they would but #15 for #32 (590 ), #56 (340 ) and #64 (270)
There are other teams to look at, but just giving examples. I can see the FO doing another trade trying to get back a 4th rounder, or maybe adding one during a potential trade back from #15.
As I wrote elsewhere, once we get to our 5-35 pick, I hope we really start to wheel and deal for extra 6th and 7th rounders...these are lottery picks at best anyways, so the more tickets you have, the better your chances or winning something :)

EDIT : if we don't hit on FS or ILB, I would look into Tre Boston and Nick Perry post 5/7 to not mess with comp pick formula, or look to vets that get cut post-draft. You never want to force a pick at a position.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:51 pm

My Mock During the Masters Final :)
I took 3 trades :
1 - Oak gets 1-15 (15), 2-14(46) and 3-12(76&
WAS gets 1-24(24), 1-27(27), 2-3(35) and 4-4(106)....unrealistic but went with the Gruden brothers connection
2 - AZ gets 1-24(24)
WAS gets 2-1(33), 3-1(65), and 4-1(103)....I took this since we still had pick #27 and it also netted us another early 3rd and 4th
3 - ATL gets 4-1(103)
WAS gets 4-15(107), 4-35(137) and 6-4(186)....I took this because ATL is aggressive and we still had pick 4-4(106)..so I only had to wait 3 picks to be up again. This also netted us an extra 4th along with an early 6th to make up for the Adonis Alexander supp draft pick.
Now to the draft :

Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 27 (OAK): Dalton Risner, OT/OG, Kansas St. (B)
Round 2 Pick 1 (ARI): NKeal Harry, WR, Arizona St. (A-)
Round 2 Pick 3 (OAK): Deionte Thompson, FS, Alabama (B)
Round 3 Pick 1 (ARI): Mack Wilson, ILB/OLB, Alabama (A-)
Round 3 Pick 32 (COMP): Mecole Hardman, WR, Georgia (A)
Round 4 Pick 4 (OAK): Ben Banogu, DE, TCU (A)
Round 4 Pick 15 (ATL): Isaiah Johnson, CB, Houston (A+)
Round 4 Pick 35 (ATL): Khalil Hodge, OLB/ILB, Buffalo (B-)
Round 5 Pick 15: Drue Tranquill, OLB, Notre Dame (A+)
Round 5 Pick 35 (COMP): Alize Mack, TE, Notre Dame (A)
Round 6 Pick 13 (ATL): Iman Marshall, CB, USC (A+)
Round 6 Pick 33 (COMP): Mitch Hyatt, OT, Clemson (A+)
Round 7 Pick 13: Jazz Ferguson, WR, Northwestern State (A+)
Round 7 Pick 39 (COMP): Brett Rypien, QB, Boise St. (A+)

The Good : - got us good help at WR , CB, ILB. I liked having 5 picks through Day 2 and total of 8 through round 4.
- pretty decent help at FS, TE, OL , Edge/OLB + added 2 more Alabama guys on D...Savage was still on the board but not listed as a "best remaining value"...but I think I like him a bit more than Thompson, but Thompson would probably gel quickly with his ex-teammates.
The Bad : took a flyer at QB in the 7th...2020 will be the franchise QB year for us
The Ugly : I really wanted more OL help, but I basically went with the "best remaining value" prospects. Zero RBs taken
The ?? : At #27, my OL choices were Risner and McCoy. I think I like McCoy better, but went with Risner due to ability to also play T. After that, the only G/C guys didn't seem to be better than the prospects I took. I was shooting for 12 picks ( based on how I understood Bruce Allen's quote a few weeks back ), but ended up with 14..it was hard to pass up the trades I took honestly. I was also hoping a SS would sneak in. Since I got ILBs WIlson and Hodge, I could maybe see JHC as a spot SS since he did play the position more in college and seems to be a dimebacker in our scheme.
Hyatt, Ferguson, Mack and Marshall all pretty good value where they were taken. Hyatt needs a year of S&C along with Callahan's coaching.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:03 pm

Current roster guys that if they make it to camp, I will be keeping a close eye on ( ** my guess as a 1st cut potential ) :

C- Casey Dunn.....if he develops, it could allow us to switch Roullier back to LG
CB- Adonis Alexander...great size and another one who would excel in press-man, also wonder about him as a FS but not explosive fast
DL- Jojo Wicker..quick 1st step and decent as a run stopper...can he be DL #6 ??
OG - Tyler Catalina...supposedly has gotten much stronger and should be better prepared at G ( college OT ). Great size, just not sure he is more than an average backup at best ??
LB - Andrew Ankrah...the AAF edge rusher, with fairly little competition at the moment this is a great shot for him **
LB - Cassanova McKinzy...looked good before the injury..same as above
LB- Marcus Smith...former 1st rounder who probably has the highest ceiling of all the position guys...can one of the 3 step up??
G/T- Ereck Flowers...low risk boom/bust signing...bust costs us pennies and some snaps, boom pays high dividend
OG- Darius James...big and thick, better in the run game vs pass pro..not overly athletic though **
OG- Roubbens Joseph...another huge body, probably a year away if anything **
FS - Troy Apke...can he be more than just speed ? probably my least favorite pick of last years draft
OT- Geron Christian...played better as he got more snaps but then got hurt. Has he developed, has great shot at taking over for Nsekhe
OT- Timon Paris...he is raw , I think he could be a dark horse candidate for the LG spot...or he is one of the early cuts :) **
TE- Matt Flanagan...great size who can block and catch..but nowhere near the ability of this year's prospect TJ Hockenson
WR- assuming that PRich/Doctson/Quinn are locks, the rest of the current group ( Chesson/Davis/Kidsy/McBride/Quick/Sims ) are the ones that will be battling for the last 3 spots..with Chesson/McBride/Quick being the early cut potentials. Also, we usually hit camp with 12 WRs and only have 9....so I expect 2 in the draft plus another 2-4 minimum in udfa which will send a couple of the listed above looking elsewhere for work.

Any of you have other thoughts on the above, or guys I just didn't include. I guess I could have brought up recent early draft picks such as Doctson/Anderson/Moreau...but I don't see anyway that they don't make the roster honestly. What I like about the above list of 15 guys, is that 3 are Edge rushers and 7 are OL guys battling for depth and/or 1 starting spot. While maybe not perfect, at least we are/have brought in young guys to develop at need areas.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby Skins-R-Us » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:13 am

VegasSkinsFan wrote:Was just going to put the news here. Not only great news for us, but that was one hell of a move by Bruce Allen...but still hope he is gone sooner than later.

But Reuben just got here? :D
"Winning off the field since 1999" Bruce Allen

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:21 am

Skins-R-Us wrote:But Reuben just got here? :D


In reading back how I wrote that, yeah it wasn't all that clear haha. So to clear it, I want RFoster here for a long time, I want Bruce Allen out sooner than later :)

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:38 am

Since I am always looking for extra picks, this post will be focused on what I call " 7ths as UDFAs " . As we near the 7th on draft day, we have pick 6-33C ( #206 ). As a sidenote, we also have 7-13(227) and 7-30(253) . I might be inclined to trade this one for multiple 7ths..more so if we have previously acquired an earlier 6th somehow. There are 4 teams that have multiple 7ths I am looking at that might be interested in moving up?
BUF - 225, 228
MIA - 233, 234
AZ - 248, 249, 254
NE - 239, 243, 246, 252
These are always crapshoot picks, but a great spot to beat the UDFA rush where you then have to negotiate with players.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:48 am

Since I think that the Defense is closer to a finished product than the offense, lets take a quick look at how to finish the D :

Edge ( opposite Kerrigan ) :
current options : Ryan Anderson, Marcus Smith , Cassanova McKinzy, Andrew Ankrah
logical draft options : Clelin Ferrell ,Brian Burns, Oshane Ximines, Jachai Polite, Jaylon Ferguson, Joe Jackson, Chase Winovich, Ben Benogu , Deandre Walker ,
free agent target : Junior Galette

position thoughts : Ryan Anderson is solid but underrated as a player but not the speed rusher we all want. Smith/McKinzy/Ankrah have the chance to shine.

Free Safety :
current options : Montae Nicholson, Troy Apke , Dominique Rogers-Cromartie , Adonis Alexander?
logical draft options : Deiontae Thompson, Chauncey Gardner-Johnson , Darnell Savage, Juan Thornhill , Johnathan Abram, Marvell Tell , Malik Gant, Lukas Denis
free agent target : Tre Boston

position thoughts : Ideally Nicholson is the guy going forward, but Boston would give us more vet presence in the backfield. Pairing Collins with one of the top draft prospects would give us a very solid future at safety though.

ILB : I like our corp but wouldn't mind another upgrade here so I added this
Current Options : RFoster, MFoster, Shaun Dion Hamilton, Josh Harvey-Clemons
logical draft options : Devin White, Devin Bush , Mack Wilson, Joe Giles-Harris, Khalil Hodge...and a handful of others
free agent target : Nick Perry...but I would NOT go fa at ilb. Worst case : Zach Vigil..not that I don't like him, I just want an upgrade

position thoughts ; I would love an upgrade over MFoster, I really like SDH and hope he can stay healthy. Other than Devin White, who would be amazing next to RFoster, some of those mid-round ILBS should be a target.

Even though the offense needs a lot of pieces, I really hope that we finish off the D. I am good with an either/or/combo.....what I mean is that I hope we don't force a pick just to pick someone.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby ILikeSonny09 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:43 pm

VegasSkinsFan wrote:Since I think that the Defense is closer to a finished product than the offense, lets take a quick look at how to finish the D :

Edge ( opposite Kerrigan ) :
current options : Ryan Anderson, Marcus Smith , Cassanova McKinzy, Andrew Ankrah
logical draft options : Clelin Ferrell ,Brian Burns, Oshane Ximines, Jachai Polite, Jaylon Ferguson, Joe Jackson, Chase Winovich, Ben Benogu , Deandre Walker ,
free agent target : Junior Galette

position thoughts : Ryan Anderson is solid but underrated as a player but not the speed rusher we all want. Smith/McKinzy/Ankrah have the chance to shine.

Free Safety :
current options : Montae Nicholson, Troy Apke , Dominique Rogers-Cromartie , Adonis Alexander?
logical draft options : Deiontae Thompson, Chauncey Gardner-Johnson , Darnell Savage, Juan Thornhill , Johnathan Abram, Marvell Tell , Malik Gant, Lukas Denis
free agent target : Tre Boston

position thoughts : Ideally Nicholson is the guy going forward, but Boston would give us more vet presence in the backfield. Pairing Collins with one of the top draft prospects would give us a very solid future at safety though.

ILB : I like our corp but wouldn't mind another upgrade here so I added this
Current Options : RFoster, MFoster, Shaun Dion Hamilton, Josh Harvey-Clemons
logical draft options : Devin White, Devin Bush , Mack Wilson, Joe Giles-Harris, Khalil Hodge...and a handful of others
free agent target : Nick Perry...but I would NOT go fa at ilb. Worst case : Zach Vigil..not that I don't like him, I just want an upgrade

position thoughts ; I would love an upgrade over MFoster, I really like SDH and hope he can stay healthy. Other than Devin White, who would be amazing next to RFoster, some of those mid-round ILBS should be a target.

Even though the offense needs a lot of pieces, I really hope that we finish off the D. I am good with an either/or/combo.....what I mean is that I hope we don't force a pick just to pick someone.


Worth noting-

Half the draft option edge guys you name do not qualify as the "speed rusher" we all want.

If we use Collins principally at SS, we need a FS. Some of the draft-able safeties you name are not that.

You need to quit mentioning Devin White. lol. There's almost no chance he'll make it out of the top 10. He'll certainly not last to #15.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:03 pm

ILikeSonny09 wrote:Worth noting-

Half the draft option edge guys you name do not qualify as the "speed rusher" we all want.

If we use Collins principally at SS, we need a FS. Some of the draft-able safeties you name are not that.

You need to quit mentioning Devin White. lol. There's almost no chance he'll make it out of the top 10. He'll certainly not last to #15.


Agree...just listed the top names listed as Edge

Agree....most are FS, Thornhill and Abram have been listed as FS/SS.

Jonathan Allen on line 1 for you :) But yes, I actually agree with you

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:24 pm

I see that AZ cut OL Jeremiah Poutasi...former 3rd rounder. A guy that should be moved to G, has some flaws but plays with a bit of nastiness. Reminds of the same type of project as Ereck Flowers...better suited inside and bit of a waist bend flaw. Honestly, I bring in as many guys as I can until the draft, and then go again from there.
Andreas Knapp was also released, but of the 2 I think Poutasi could fit better at G ??

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby kbg » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:39 pm

VegasSkinsFan wrote:I see that AZ cut OL Jeremiah Poutasi...former 3rd rounder. A guy that should be moved to G, has some flaws but plays with a bit of nastiness. Reminds of the same type of project as Ereck Flowers...better suited inside and bit of a waist bend flaw. Honestly, I bring in as many guys as I can until the draft, and then go again from there.
Andreas Knapp was also released, but of the 2 I think Poutasi could fit better at G ??


i don't know the guy but what you say makes good sense.
one query, obviously we have to pay these guys something to sign them. and around 40 of them won't make the final list. does what we pay them get counted under our cap?
if not, absolutely no reason not to grab guys like this.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby ILikeSonny09 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:20 pm

VegasSkinsFan wrote:I see that AZ cut OL Jeremiah Poutasi...former 3rd rounder. A guy that should be moved to G, has some flaws but plays with a bit of nastiness. Reminds of the same type of project as Ereck Flowers...better suited inside and bit of a waist bend flaw. Honestly, I bring in as many guys as I can until the draft, and then go again from there.
Andreas Knapp was also released, but of the 2 I think Poutasi could fit better at G ??


Been w/5 NFL teams in 4 yrs, finally Arizona which needs linemen, and he didn't last a week. The bit about his moving inside came with his original scouting report so nothing new there with any of the teams. He's not worth a look. Or at least, I'm much more at ease if the FO isn't interested because we have a large enough stable already along with plans to add a G via draft.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:35 pm

kbg wrote:i don't know the guy but what you say makes good sense.
one query, obviously we have to pay these guys something to sign them. and around 40 of them won't make the final list. does what we pay them get counted under our cap?
if not, absolutely no reason not to grab guys like this.


honestly not sure of all the salary cap rules, but guys like this wont cost much. I think we have around $12M left in cap, and we can make a few moves to double that if we so choose.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:40 pm

ILikeSonny09 wrote:Been w/5 NFL teams in 4 yrs, finally Arizona which needs linemen, and he didn't last a week. The bit about his moving inside came with his original scouting report so nothing new there with any of the teams. He's not worth a look. Or at least, I'm much more at ease if the FO isn't interested because we have a large enough stable already along with plans to add a G via draft.


Yeah, looks like he had an ankle issue one year, but did last long with any team. Only 24yrs old, great size...but if he cant play, then yeah, why waste time. I agree that we do have a large stable of guys, Strange that AZ ( actually his 6th team if you count his AAF games ) signed him a week ago and already released him...not even sure they practiced yet, just had workouts haha.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby kbg » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:03 am

VegasSkinsFan wrote:Yeah, looks like he had an ankle issue one year, but did last long with any team. Only 24yrs old, great size...but if he cant play, then yeah, why waste time. I agree that we do have a large stable of guys, Strange that AZ ( actually his 6th team if you count his AAF games ) signed him a week ago and already released him...not even sure they practiced yet, just had workouts haha.


i can understand the sign and release a week later if the squads are full - make way for a better option who has just become available. if, however, there are still plenty of spots, before they start the cull, and someone is released after a week, that is real red flag territory.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:33 am

kbg wrote:i can understand the sign and release a week later if the squads are full - make way for a better option who has just become available. if, however, there are still plenty of spots, before they start the cull, and someone is released after a week, that is real red flag territory.


Yeah, most teams have about 15+ open spots this time of year, AZ is sitting at 73, we currently have 74 players listed. So we will be adding at least 16 new players to the roster, and most likely closer to 20-24...which will lead to cuts of current guys. For example, I wrote last week that we currently have 9 Wrs listed, but we usually hit camp with 12. Leads me to think that we will bring in 2-3 during the draft and then probably a handful during udfa and keep churning those bottom roles.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby ILikeSonny09 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:03 am

VegasSkinsFan wrote:Current roster guys that if they make it to camp, I will be keeping a close eye on ( ** my guess as a 1st cut potential ) :

C- Casey Dunn.....if he develops, it could allow us to switch Roullier back to LG
CB- Adonis Alexander...great size and another one who would excel in press-man, also wonder about him as a FS but not explosive fast
DL- Jojo Wicker..quick 1st step and decent as a run stopper...can he be DL #6 ??
OG - Tyler Catalina...supposedly has gotten much stronger and should be better prepared at G ( college OT ). Great size, just not sure he is more than an average backup at best ??
LB - Andrew Ankrah...the AAF edge rusher, with fairly little competition at the moment this is a great shot for him **
LB - Cassanova McKinzy...looked good before the injury..same as above
LB- Marcus Smith...former 1st rounder who probably has the highest ceiling of all the position guys...can one of the 3 step up??
G/T- Ereck Flowers...low risk boom/bust signing...bust costs us pennies and some snaps, boom pays high dividend
OG- Darius James...big and thick, better in the run game vs pass pro..not overly athletic though **
OG- Roubbens Joseph...another huge body, probably a year away if anything **
FS - Troy Apke...can he be more than just speed ? probably my least favorite pick of last years draft
OT- Geron Christian...played better as he got more snaps but then got hurt. Has he developed, has great shot at taking over for Nsekhe
OT- Timon Paris...he is raw , I think he could be a dark horse candidate for the LG spot...or he is one of the early cuts :) **
TE- Matt Flanagan...great size who can block and catch..but nowhere near the ability of this year's prospect TJ Hockenson
WR- assuming that PRich/Doctson/Quinn are locks, the rest of the current group ( Chesson/Davis/Kidsy/McBride/Quick/Sims ) are the ones that will be battling for the last 3 spots..with Chesson/McBride/Quick being the early cut potentials. Also, we usually hit camp with 12 WRs and only have 9....so I expect 2 in the draft plus another 2-4 minimum in udfa which will send a couple of the listed above looking elsewhere for work.

Any of you have other thoughts on the above, or guys I just didn't include. I guess I could have brought up recent early draft picks such as Doctson/Anderson/Moreau...but I don't see anyway that they don't make the roster honestly. What I like about the above list of 15 guys, is that 3 are Edge rushers and 7 are OL guys battling for depth and/or 1 starting spot. While maybe not perfect, at least we are/have brought in young guys to develop at need areas.


I'm back to something I posted recently, that with guys coming back healthy we are a stronger roster than many realize. You've put together a good list of backend candidates, and we mustn't forget that at many positions, some of the guys listed above will make the team largely or even exclusively on their Special Teams prowess. Chesson's a good example: if he can excel on ST, he only needs to be serviceable as a WR in a spot role or emergency. Of the above candidates, Sims may show more than the rest at WR but unless he can be one of the top 4 he likely has show some ST competence to make the roster.

As for the draft, how much it's needs-driven depends not just on the FO's philosophy but what they think of the current stable. Taking the highest-ranked guy on their board is easier if they're not desperate, but it doesn't get the highest marks from fans and pundits. It's worth looking at each "position of need", as we see it, and postulating what they might be willing to live with and why if they end up not fixing it in this draft. That'll be a different post if I get around to it at all.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:18 am

ILikeSonny09 wrote:I'm back to something I posted recently, that with guys coming back healthy we are a stronger roster than many realize. You've put together a good list of backend candidates, and we mustn't forget that at many positions, some of the guys listed above will make the team largely or even exclusively on their Special Teams prowess. Chesson's a good example: if he can excel on ST, he only needs to be serviceable as a WR in a spot role or emergency. Of the above candidates, Sims may show more than the rest at WR but unless he can be one of the top 4 he likely has show some ST competence to make the roster.

As for the draft, how much it's needs-driven depends not just on the FO's philosophy but what they think of the current stable. Taking the highest-ranked guy on their board is easier if they're not desperate, but it doesn't get the highest marks from fans and pundits. It's worth looking at each "position of need", as we see it, and postulating what they might be willing to live with and why if they end up not fixing it in this draft. That'll be a different post if I get around to it at all.


Agree with you on ST ability, that's usually the "tie-breaker" for bubble guys. You mentioned Chesson, currently I rank him high as a ST player...great gunner, always near the ball, and can return kicks but don't think we used him in that aspect last year? As a WR, to me his main flaw is that he is a body catcher, so sometimes the ball will bounce off him for an incompletion. His route running needs work, but he is a guy that has a slight chance.
As far as Sims, I don't recall paying attention to him on teams..but you are spot on. Sims is a guy I can actually envision as a big/tall slot guy + RZ threat. A guy in the draft that should be around in the 6th-UDFA area in the Cam Sims mold is Jazz Ferguson, but I think I like his upside better than Sims. I've grabbed him in a couple mocks, He is about 6'5" and just under 230lbs who runs a 4.3...but like most college guys has a very limited route tree. Sims and guys like him are the guys that I want/hope grow enough to be out guys like Brian Quick for example. Really need PRich to stay healthy this year, if healthy things will open up underneath too,...making it easier for Reed/Quinn and RBs

Who knows what the FO philosophy will be, but I think they will be aggressive in getting solid players since they feel they are in win-now mode.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:28 am

ILikeSonny09 wrote:I'm back to something I posted recently, that with guys coming back healthy we are a stronger roster than many realize. You've put together a good list of backend candidates, and we mustn't forget that at many positions, some of the guys listed above will make the team largely or even exclusively on their Special Teams prowess. Chesson's a good example: if he can excel on ST, he only needs to be serviceable as a WR in a spot role or emergency. Of the above candidates, Sims may show more than the rest at WR but unless he can be one of the top 4 he likely has show some ST competence to make the roster.

As for the draft, how much it's needs-driven depends not just on the FO's philosophy but what they think of the current stable. Taking the highest-ranked guy on their board is easier if they're not desperate, but it doesn't get the highest marks from fans and pundits. It's worth looking at each "position of need", as we see it, and postulating what they might be willing to live with and why if they end up not fixing it in this draft. That'll be a different post if I get around to it at all.


I didn't touch on that sentence in my last post, but yes healthy is HUGE. I mentioned PRich, but we had a ton of injuries, actually enough players to equal a starting roster of 22..with 2 guys on the bench haha. Even if back healthy, OL needs more quality depth. Really hoping for 2 in the draft at OL. Just not sure if any of our current young depth guys are ready to step into a starting role, and I cant hold my breath that Ereck Flowers will magically transform into a G, even though I really hope he can.

I'm still holding strong that if we run the draft correctly, we can almost have a very solid team. BIG IF though, not to mention that the right players have to fall to our spots + hopefully getting a couple of extra picks too.
repeat of what I wrote yesterday or the day before, but needs are :
Defense - FS, ILB , Edge.....and we might have answers already in Nicholson/Smith...and then add another ILB in the draft
Offense - needs are QB, WR, LG, Dual Threat TE.....this one is a bit trickier, but if we trade for Rosen, the other areas are well stocked in the draft.
Yes we have supplemental/secondary needs...but those can be hit on day 3 or in 2020.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby SkinsGuru » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:24 pm

hell no on Metcalf, the dude is going to be a bust and out of the league in 3 years

Moe wrote:WaPo comparing two players likely available at 15:

"Assuming the Redskins don’t draft a quarterback with the 15th overall pick, where else could they look for offensive help? In the second part in our series of draft debates, we take a look at Alabama offensive lineman Jonah Williams and Mississippi receiver D.K. Metcalf.

The case for Williams

It’s no secret that Washington has an affinity for Alabama players, and Williams would be the team’s third first-round pick from the Crimson Tide in as many years. The three-year starter played right tackle as a freshman and moved to the left for his final two years, being named an AP all-American as a junior. But some draft experts have argued that the 6-foot-4, 302 pounder could move inside to guard in the pros, due to his relatively short arms (33 5/8 inches).

“I think there’s a chance he could hold up at tackle and be a functional starting tackle,” NFL Network draft analyst Daniel Jeremiah said. “I think he’s got a chance to be special inside. To me, that’s where he fits best. Some of these length issues . . . [showed] up in the Clemson game this year, showed up in the Clemson game last year, where guys kind of get into his chest and he struggles a little bit on the edge.

“He is a dominating run blocker,” Jeremiah continued. “Played a lot of football there at Alabama. I know some teams actually like him at center. . . . I think he’s got a chance to be a perennial Pro Bowl guard with the way that he plays. I love the nasty that he has.”
Redskins coaches and scouts have been taking a close look at tackles during at the pre-draft process at the Senior Bowl and scouting combine, so Williams’s versatility could be seen as a plus.

The case for Metcalf

The 6-3, 228-pound deep threat is considered the No. 1 wide receiver prospect, and pictures of his bulked-up went viral when he more closely resembled a heavyweight boxer than a receiver. His 27 bench-press reps at the combine tied N’Keal Harry for the most by any receiver, and his 4.33-second 40-yard dash was the fourth-fastest of any player at the combine.

Few doubt that Metcalf is a big, fast playmaker, but his slow times in agility testing and a lengthy injury history — including a serious neck injury that ended his 2018 season — have contributed to questions about whether he can be a well-rounded NFL receiver. He caught 65 passes for 1,215 yards and 12 touchdowns in 12 combined games his last two seasons.

“It’s very obvious what he does best: He runs the 9 route and goes up and makes plays on the ball vertically as well as anyone in this class,” ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay said. “When you’re basically 6-3 1/2, 228 pounds, there’s going to be a little bit of tightness. . . . [The agility-drill struggles] are issues. . . . I do think that aspect of his game will have to improve in order for him to become a more complete receiver in the NFL.

“I understand he was kind of a one-trick pony, but it’s a hell of a trick,” McShay continued. “When you can get down the field at 228 and when you can go up and compete for the ball the way he does, track the deep ball, adjust and make the plays that he did — get off of press, which he did. . . . He’s got that already. . . . He’s got to continue to develop as a short and intermediate route-runner in order to get the most out of his potential.”

But would the Redskins be able to maximize Metcalf’s ability? They already have a 50-50 ball type of receiver in Doctson, and Paul Richardson is in place as a speedy deep threat. McShay noted that Metcalf is more dangerous with a strong-armed quarterback, and Washington remains unsettled at the position.


Washington Redskins Analysis
Should the Redskins draft D.K. Metcalf or Jonah Williams in the first round?

Mississippi wide receiver D.K. Metcalf is considered one of the top playmakers in the 2019 draft. (Darron Cummings)

By Kareem Copeland
April 11 at 7:30 AM
The Washington Redskins’ offseason needs were blatantly clear during the team’s regular-season finale, as a sea of green-and-white clad Philadelphia Eagles fans took over FedEx Field to watch the visitors claim a 24-0 victory. The only way to have made it more obvious would have been Coach Jay Gruden holding a sign on the sideline that read, “Send offensive help.”

The unknown future of Alex Smith leaves a hole at quarterback, and Washington will have the option of drafting a passer, trading for the Cardinals’ Josh Rosen, or head into the 2019 season with the combination of veterans Case Keenum and Colt McCoy. But regardless of who’s under center, there’s a need for a starter at guard and a playmaking receiver.

Former Giants first-round tackle Ereck Flowers was signed in free agency and will have the opportunity to be the left guard opposite Brandon Scherff, but the soon-to-be 25-year-old has struggled in his first four seasons, and that was before attempting to switch positions. The Redskins had some of the worst production from their wide receivers in the entire league last season, and now starting slot receiver Jamison Crowder is gone to the Jets via free agency.

ADVERTISING

[Redskins’ preseason schedule opens in Cleveland vs. familiar foe Odell Beckham Jr.]

Assuming the Redskins don’t draft a quarterback with the 15th overall pick, where else could they look for offensive help? In the second part in our series of draft debates, we take a look at Alabama offensive lineman Jonah Williams and Mississippi receiver D.K. Metcalf.

The case for Williams

It’s no secret that Washington has an affinity for Alabama players, and Williams would be the team’s third first-round pick from the Crimson Tide in as many years. The three-year starter played right tackle as a freshman and moved to the left for his final two years, being named an AP all-American as a junior. But some draft experts have argued that the 6-foot-4, 302 pounder could move inside to guard in the pros, due to his relatively short arms (33 5/8 inches).


“I think there’s a chance he could hold up at tackle and be a functional starting tackle,” NFL Network draft analyst Daniel Jeremiah said. “I think he’s got a chance to be special inside. To me, that’s where he fits best. Some of these length issues . . . [showed] up in the Clemson game this year, showed up in the Clemson game last year, where guys kind of get into his chest and he struggles a little bit on the edge.

“He is a dominating run blocker,” Jeremiah continued. “Played a lot of football there at Alabama. I know some teams actually like him at center. . . . I think he’s got a chance to be a perennial Pro Bowl guard with the way that he plays. I love the nasty that he has.”

[John Clayton's 2019 NFL mock draft: Projecting all 32 first-round picks]

Redskins coaches and scouts have been taking a close look at tackles during at the pre-draft process at the Senior Bowl and scouting combine, so Williams’s versatility could be seen as a plus. The team lost Ty Nsekhe, who served as a swing tackle but also played guard for the Redskins, to the Bills in free agency.


The case for Metcalf

The 6-3, 228-pound deep threat is considered the No. 1 wide receiver prospect, and pictures of his bulked-up went viral when he more closely resembled a heavyweight boxer than a receiver. His 27 bench-press reps at the combine tied N’Keal Harry for the most by any receiver, and his 4.33-second 40-yard dash was the fourth-fastest of any player at the combine.

Few doubt that Metcalf is a big, fast playmaker, but his slow times in agility testing and a lengthy injury history — including a serious neck injury that ended his 2018 season — have contributed to questions about whether he can be a well-rounded NFL receiver. He caught 65 passes for 1,215 yards and 12 touchdowns in 12 combined games his last two seasons.

“It’s very obvious what he does best: He runs the 9 route and goes up and makes plays on the ball vertically as well as anyone in this class,” ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay said. “When you’re basically 6-3 1/2, 228 pounds, there’s going to be a little bit of tightness. . . . [The agility-drill struggles] are issues. . . . I do think that aspect of his game will have to improve in order for him to become a more complete receiver in the NFL.


“I understand he was kind of a one-trick pony, but it’s a hell of a trick,” McShay continued. “When you can get down the field at 228 and when you can go up and compete for the ball the way he does, track the deep ball, adjust and make the plays that he did — get off of press, which he did. . . . He’s got that already. . . . He’s got to continue to develop as a short and intermediate route-runner in order to get the most out of his potential.”

[These 5 NFL draft prospects don't measure up to their first-round hype]

But would the Redskins be able to maximize Metcalf’s ability? They already have a 50-50 ball type of receiver in Doctson, and Paul Richardson is in place as a speedy deep threat. McShay noted that Metcalf is more dangerous with a strong-armed quarterback, and Washington remains unsettled at the position.


Conclusion

The final decision, if both remain on the board, could come down to philosophy. The Redskins could have one of the best offensive lines in the league if the left guard situation is settled and the group can stay healthy. For a team with quarterback issues that hopes to rely upon the running game and a strong defense, an upper-echelon offensive line is more of a need than a luxury. That same offense also need playmakers catching the ball, however, especially with Crowder gone.

Former Redskins general manager Charley Casserly, who is now an NFL Network analyst, said he would choose Williams over Metcalf.

“Jonah Williams is a better prospect,” Casserly said. “I’d take the higher guy. If the Redskins take him I’d just put him at guard from Day 1 and he just goes. The thing about him, if I needed a tackle, I’d line him up there at left tackle and I’d make him prove that he can’t play the position. Because I think he might be able to, but I know he can play guard.”

McShay, who ranks Williams the No. 14 overall prospect in this class, and Metcalf at No. 16, said there’s less risk with Williams.

“Wide receiver is, I believe, a little bigger need,” McShay said. “But you know what you’re getting with Jonah. I would go with Jonah. D.K. [has had] injuries two of the last three years [and] he’s not a polished route-runner, I know he’s a physical freak, but there’s more potential of not getting value there . . . I think the risk factor of busting, and I’m big on that with first rounders, is a lot less with Jonah.”

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:31 pm

Surprised that nobody posted it, but we extended Matt Ioannidis for 3yr/$21.75M another very good move by the FO. Also saw that we signed a QB from the AAF, Josh Woodrum :

http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/2016-nfl- ... h-woodrum/

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby Skins-R-Us » Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:49 am

VegasSkinsFan wrote:Surprised that nobody posted it, but we extended Matt Ioannidis for 3yr/$21.75M another very good move by the FO. Also saw that we signed a QB from the AAF, Josh Woodrum :

http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/2016-nfl- ... h-woodrum/

Good moves for sure.
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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:53 am

Hopefully we all wake up one week from today knowing that we added 3 impact starters, a couple of solid role players and a dozen high upside developmental guys between the late round picks and udfa. As far as udfa goes, we usually are a step slow in signing guys compared to some of the teams, but I hope they get a quicker start this year. Hoping to make a list of some potential guys to look that I think wont get drafted.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:57 am

Skins-R-Us wrote:Good moves for sure.


Yeah 2 good moves to add to the other AAF guys we signed...not to mention the big pickups of Collins and RFoster. So far I give the offseason a B grade, maybe a B+ if one of the AAF guys really steps up. Had we extended Scherff I would have given it a B+/A grade, and also had we traded for Rosen. Signing a LG, even though I thought it was highly unlikely, would have upped the grade too...and Ereck Flowers signing wasn't enough to up it for me, but have no issue with taking a chance on him. Young, good size, just think that his weaknesses wont go away just because we move him to LG....c'mon Callahan, lets see you work some David Copperfield magic :)
Another move I had trouble grading, but don't hate it was DB DRC. Is he playing CB or FS ??
Still hoping, depending on how the draft falls and if we don't move DRC/Alexander, Tre Boston ( post 5/7 to not affect comp picks ) and/or any solid guys that end up getting cut post draft.
Last edited by VegasSkinsFan on Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:24 am

Was going to write about the 4 AAF guys we signed, but found this article this morning funny enough :

https://www.hogshaven.com/2019/4/21/183 ... om-the-aaf

My thoughts :

ILB - DeMarquise Gates .... I noticed him when watching their game against the Birmingham Iron. Only watched the game because my brother-in-law was the OL coach of the Iron. Gates was the one player that actually stood out to me. After reading the above article, seems like his main issue is effort. That will mainly fall on him, but if there is a coach that can get effort from a guy, it might be our ILB coach Rob Ryan ?? I have to assume that RFoster/MFoster/SDH/JHC are the #1-4 guys. We usually hit with 5 at ILB, so unless we draft or sign someone else, if he can show 100% effort Gates has a slight chance of being that guy...but I will put him as probably the 2nd most likely cut of the AAF guys.

OL - Salesi Uhatafe....to me he is just another camp body, decent size but needs a lot of work. Can Callahan get him to be decent depth?? I think he is probably the first cut of the AAF guys.

OLB/Edge - Andrew Ankrah....seems like he has something to work with, just needs some good coaching. Probably has the best chance mainly due to the smaller pool of competition. Now, I think Brian Burns is a high probability of being the pick at #15 if still on the board...but Ankrah will stlll have a slight chance to be the #4 guy if that happened. In a perfect world, Burns is selected and Marcus Smith lives up to his ceiling giving us the trio of Anderson/Smith/Burns while having McKinzy/Ankrah battling for #4...not a terrible situation to be in.

QB - Josh Woodrum....I don't know too much about him, but did see in his limited NFL play that he actually had decent stats..but too small of a window to really get any kind of view on him. A couple of thoughts though :
- he is viewed as a #3 for now taking over the roll of Josh Johnson, still on 26yrs old I believe. I'm ok with that for now
- My outside the box thought is that we picked him up because maybe we will offer AZ either #46 or #76 + Case Keenum for Josh Rosen? Or some kind of trade involving Keenum and a pick ??
anyone have thoughts ?

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:33 am

Anyone else following this story with CB Jalen Ramsey ?/ Guess he is having a "spat" with the FO due to not going to voluntary OTA ? Then Landon Collins tweeted that he should come to the Redskins, and Ramsey retweeted it. still on rookie deal and we could pick up the 5th year option. The question is what is the cost of getting him here, and are we interested ? Salary cost can be worked out easily enough, its just what pick or picks would it take to get him. Now, I'm not saying we will or should, just some rumored stuff out there.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:13 pm

So this is the list of prospects that we brought in for a visit :

Jesse Aniebonam, DE/3-4OLB/OLB, Maryland (PRI)
Kendall Blanton, TE, Missouri (EW)
David Blough, QB, Purdue (EW)
A.J. Brown, WR, Ole Miss (PRI)
Hakeen Butler, WR, Iowa State (PRI)
Parris Campbell, WR, Ohio State (PRI)
Blake Cashman^, ILB, Minnesota (COM, PRI)
Davion Davis, WR, Sam Houston State (WOR)
Nate Davis, OT, Charlotte (PRI)
Andre Dillard, OT, Washington State (PRI)
Jon Duhart, WR, Old Dominion (EW)
Chuma Edoga, OT, USC (SR)
Jordan Ellis, RB, Virginia (EW)
Ryan Finley^, QB, N.C. State (COM, PRI)
Cody Ford, OT/G, Oklahoma (COM)
Travis Fulgham, WR, Old Dominion (LOC)
Carl Granderson, DE/3-4OLB, Wyoming (SR)
Will Grier^, QB, West Virginia (COM, PRO, PRI)
Kelvin Harmon, WR, N.C. State (COM)
Darius Harris, ILB, Middle Tennessee (PRI)
Dwayne Haskins, QB, Ohio State (PRI)
Jesper Horstead, WR, Princeton (EW)
Tytus Howard^, OT, Alabama State (SR, PRI)
KeeSean Johnson, WR, Fresno State (EW)
Daniel Jones^, QB, Duke (COM, PRI)
Nick Linder, C, Indiana (EW)
Chris Lindstrom, G, Boston College (PRI)
Drew Lock^, QB, Missouri (PRO, PRI)
Kaleb McGary, OT, Washington (PRI)
D.K. Metcalf, WR, Ole Miss (COM)
Adrian Middleton, DT, Kentucky (WOR)
Foster Moreau, TE, LSU (SR)
Brandon Murphy, OT, Memphis (WOR)
Kyler Murray, QB, Oklahoma (PRI)
Chris Peace, OLB, Virginia (EW)
Ryan Pope, OT, San Diego State (PRO)
Dalton Risner^, OT, Kansas State (SR, PRI)
Tyler Roemer, OT, San Diego State (PRO)
Dru Samia, G, Oklahoma (SR)
Deebo Samuel, WR, South Carolina (COM)
David Sills, WR, West Virginia (SR)
Chris Slayton, DT, Syracuse (EW)
Jaylen Smith, WR, Louisville (SR)
Jarrett Stidham^, QB, Auburn (COM, PRI)
Sione Takitaki, OLB, Brigham Young (EW)
Jawaan Taylor, OT, Florida (COM)
Cody Thompson, WR, Toledo (EW)
Clayton Thorson, QB, Northwestern (PRI)
Tre Watson, ILB, Maryland (EW)
Trevon Wesco, FB, West Virginia (SR)
Kevin Wilkins, DT, Rutgers (EW)
Mack Wilson, ILB, Alabama (PRI)
Renell Wren, DT/3-4DE, Arizona State (SR)
Terry Wright, WR, Purdue (EW)
Rock Ya-Sin, CB, Temple (SR)

Some quick thoughts in looking at it :
- Other than Drew Lock and Jawaan Taylor...none are worth #15, and Lock comes with some question marks, but is probably my favorite of the Qbs.
- interesting by their absence ; TJ Hockenson, Montez Sweat, Brian Burns ,Devin Bush. Maybe a combo of lack of interest or just a smokescreen and hoping one of them falls ? Also, I don't see any safeties either. So smokescreen or are Nicholson/DRC/Alexander the potential guys ?? Leaving Apke out of the conversation for now...really need to see where he is in his development this camp.
- lots of OL prospects, leads me to think we grab a couple this draft
- lastly, because other than Lock/Taylor or the mentioned Hockenson/Sweat/Burns/Bush falling...it seems like the players we are looking at would set us up nicely for a trade back to the early-mid #20's. More thoughts on that, is if we do trade a pick for Rosen, the potential trade back would get us back an extra pick or 2. This draft really sets up nicely for us...just have to make the right selections.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:37 pm

The plan with this mock was to trade back a handful of times :
on offense- add influx of OL and playmakers in space
on defense- really try to bolster the back 7 while hoping to add in an edge guy.
Accomplished the above, maybe to a bit of an overload...but I never knew who would be around. In hindsight, maybe I should have taken a scat back or a 2nd TE instead of William Sweet.
Your score is: 29033 (GRADE: A-)

Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 25 (PHI): Erik McCoy, OG/C, Texas A&M (B-)
Round 2 Pick 14: Hakeem Butler, WR, Iowa St. (A)
Round 2 Pick 25 (PHI): Darnell Savage, FS, Maryland (A-)
Round 3 Pick 4 (NYJ): Parris Campbell, WR, Ohio St. (A-)
Round 3 Pick 12: Joejuan Williams, CB, Vanderbilt (A)
Round 3 Pick 32 (COMP): Christian Miller, OLB, Alabama (A)
Round 4 Pick 3 (NYJ): Foster Moreau, TE, LSU (A+)
Round 4 Pick 13 (CAR): Ben Banogu, DE, TCU (A)
Round 5 Pick 15: Clayton Thorson, QB, Northwestern (A+)
Round 5 Pick 16 (CAR): William Sweet, OT, North Carolina (C+)
Round 6 Pick 2 (PITT): Joe Giles-Harris, OLB/ILB, Duke (A+)
Round 6 Pick 3 (S.F.): Michael Jackson, CB, Miami (Fla.) (A+)
Round 6 Pick 14 (CAR): Iman Marshall, CB, USC (A)
Round 6 Pick 33 (COMP): Jazz Ferguson, WR, Northwestern State (A)
Round 7 Pick 5 (PITT): Trey Pipkins, OT, Sioux Falls (A+)
Round 7 Pick 19 (MIA): Yosuah Nijman, OG, Virginia Tech (A)
Round 7 Pick 20 (MIA): Alex Bars, OG, Notre Dame (A)
Round 7 Pick 39 (COMP): Dakota Allen, OLB/ILB, Texas Tech (A+)

While this was fun, I will end up doing a more realistic one.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:36 pm

Found a small interesting tidbit during my internet scouring on one of our current roster guys :
WR Tre McBride - hasn't lived up to his potential yet, but the interesting thing was that he was drafted only a couple of months after Jim Tomsula became the 49ers head coach. I wonder if he had something to do with us picking up McBride ??


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