Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

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Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby lorimike » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:55 am

and of course it is linked to Gruden's emails to Bruce Allen. Found when they were investigating the Washington Football Team's workplace conditions. Uggg- Will they make Snyder sell the team ?
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby kbg » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:09 am

lorimike wrote:and of course it is linked to Gruden's emails to Bruce Allen. Found when they were investigating the Washington Football Team's workplace conditions. Uggg- Will they make Snyder sell the team ?


yes, synder survives and gruden does not. bizarre.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby Farmer Ted » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:31 am

From ESPN:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/323 ... head-coach

"The emails came to light during the NFL's investigation into workplace misconduct with Washington, as "the league was informed of the existence of emails that raised issues beyond the scope of that investigation," according to NFL spokesperson Brian McCarthy. Senior league executives reviewed the content of more than 650,000 emails, including the one the Journal reported was written by Gruden to Allen. The NFL sent pertinent emails to the Raiders for review."

They read 650,000 WFT emails, lol? How many were discount offers to Danny for massages at local strip-malls?

I guess the good news is that they didn't find a whole hell of a lot else to condemn the WFT, because we haven't heard about it. Yet.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby lorimike » Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:26 pm

Why would Jon Gruden be emailing Bruce Allen ?
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby kbg » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:55 pm

lorimike wrote:Why would Jon Gruden be emailing Bruce Allen ?


don't forget bruce was in charge in tampa when gruden was there. that was before he came up and stuffed us.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby Winnipeg_Skins_Fan » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:14 pm

Two of the most toxic individuals in the NFL, Snyder and Allen, and WFT had them both. No sympathy for Gruden either, He was 2 faced as it gets, preaching leadership yet making all kinds of bigoted remarks behind the scenes. At least 2 of the 3 are out the NFL in disgrace.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby Farmer Ted » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:27 pm

There was a really good interview with Michael Lombardi on the Surviving Snyder podcast a few weeks ago. He haaaaates Bruce Allen, lol. He won't even call the guy by name. He just refers to him as "The Punter."
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby silverspring » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:17 am

This Gruden stuff is pretty horrible. I'm pretty sure if they had a silver bullet on Snyder it would have been aired out by now. It just shows me how bad Allen is as well as the old boy NFL network.

Good thread title cause honestly, I think the NFL/NFLPA better walk very carefully here because they might just get the whole nfl cancelled. I wouldn't doubt there is some bad stuff out there if someone goes looking.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby kbg » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:28 am

silverspring wrote:This Gruden stuff is pretty horrible. I'm pretty sure if they had a silver bullet on Snyder it would have been aired out by now. It just shows me how bad Allen is as well as the old boy NFL network.

Good thread title cause honestly, I think the NFL/NFLPA better walk very carefully here because they might just get the whole nfl cancelled. I wouldn't doubt there is some bad stuff out there if someone goes looking.


no doubt, but i suspect that you could say that about most sports/industries/businesses. we have to hope that things are now better than they were, which in no way excuses gruden, allen or anyone found to have acted in this manner. although this latest mess is far too recent to blame it on the times.
what beggars belief is that these so-called leaders were so truly stupid as to put this stuff in writing. what on earth were they thinking? more likely, why on earth were they not thinking? to do that means that they are completely oblivious to any level of standards, any level of responsibility or any possibility that this could go so horribly wrong for them. in other words, not only are they really vile people, they are dumber than soup.
we keep seeing examples of what a grub allen was/is. he was dan's inseparable best buddy for a decade until dan abandoned him. hands up all those who genuinely believe that in the decade that dan and bruce were in each other's pockets 365 days a year, that dan had no idea what sort of person bruce was. didn't think so. embarrassing to be a washington fan some times.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby Farmer Ted » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:37 pm

silverspring wrote:This Gruden stuff is pretty horrible. I'm pretty sure if they had a silver bullet on Snyder it would have been aired out by now. It just shows me how bad Allen is as well as the old boy NFL network.


I think that if the league had a silver bullet on Snyder, it would do everything in its power to cover it up. Billionaires live by different rules than the rest of us, and they can do and say pretty much what they want. Goodell's job is to protect the good ole boys he works for, plain and simple. I suspect that the WFT and the NFL have been sitting on those Gruden emails for a long while. They were waiting to use them when they needed a distraction, and to claim victory on the investigation.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby silverspring » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:18 pm

Farmer Ted wrote:I think that if the league had a silver bullet on Snyder, it would do everything in its power to cover it up. Billionaires live by different rules than the rest of us, and they can do and say pretty much what they want. Goodell's job is to protect the good ole boys he works for, plain and simple. I suspect that the WFT and the NFL have been sitting on those Gruden emails for a long while. They were waiting to use them when they needed a distraction, and to claim victory on the investigation.


I am still a bit confused as to where those emails came from. The league claims they didn't release or leak them. If I am interpreting the information correctly, I think they may have actually been available from the discovery in the Schar india investigation and had nothing to do with the beth investigation.

Anyways, I still think everyone is missing the ball when they look at this and say Snyder is next. I think Snyder is chuckling right now and actually happy because Bruce Allen is looking like more of a villain than before. This actually makes Snyder look good. Much like the Schar investigation resulted in Snyder's position being strengthened, this is no different. The big picture spin if you are snyder is Allen is evil, Snyder was a victim. We all wanted Bruce fired, this just proves we were right :)
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:39 pm

My guess if that if we were still called the Redskins AND were sitting at 5-0 that we would be dragged into this mess a bit more publicly than we have been.
Also, as mentioned above , i would be a ton of money that if one was to dig deep enough into everybody's past, there would be hundreds of GMs/coaches/players etc on the Cancel Culture Naughty list...in just about every sport.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby Maddog97 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:43 pm

There is something more to the emails or the NFL would release them all or at least the responses. I think there are more damaging comments. At least I would like to see the other half of the email exchanges. How did Bruce respond? Were they all to Bruce or other staff members? Are executives at other teams implicated? My guess is yes.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby Farmer Ted » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:45 pm

Maddog97 wrote:There is something more to the emails or the NFL would release them all or at least the responses. I think there are more damaging comments. At least I would like to see the other half of the email exchanges. How did Bruce respond? Were they all to Bruce or other staff members? Are executives at other teams implicated? My guess is yes.


For sure, but I'm sure the league wants to cover up anything that implicates owners. And I'm sure he also emailed his brother regularly, but we haven't heard anything about that.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby kbg » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:30 pm

Maddog97 wrote:There is something more to the emails or the NFL would release them all or at least the responses. I think there are more damaging comments. At least I would like to see the other half of the email exchanges. How did Bruce respond? Were they all to Bruce or other staff members? Are executives at other teams implicated? My guess is yes.


agreed.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby Maddog97 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:28 pm

Farmer Ted wrote:For sure, but I'm sure the league wants to cover up anything that implicates owners. And I'm sure he also emailed his brother regularly, but we haven't heard anything about that.


I checked the NY Times article. This could implicate more than owners. I would like to see these emails.

"Some of the emails between Gruden and Allen also included businessmen friends, Ed Droste, the co-founder of Hooters; Jim McVay, an executive who has run the Outback Bowl, annually held in Tampa, Fla.; and Nick Reader, the founder of PDQ Restaurants, a Tampa-based fried chicken franchise. The exchanges begin as early as 2010 while Gruden was an analyst for “Monday Night Football.”"
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby silverspring » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:24 am

VegasSkinsFan wrote:My guess if that if we were still called the Redskins AND were sitting at 5-0 that we would be dragged into this mess a bit more publicly than we have been.
Also, as mentioned above , i would be a ton of money that if one was to dig deep enough into everybody's past, there would be hundreds of GMs/coaches/players etc on the Cancel Culture Naughty list...in just about every sport.


Exactly.
Everyone, well particularly people associated with WFT, think keeping the wilkinson investigation under lock and key has to do with protecting Snyder being he is a rich owner. But I think you point out the more realistic problem for the NFL. Bruce Allen has been deeply involved in the nfl his whole life. He has a lot of connections, friends, etc throughout the league in very high places. Likely many more close associates than Snyder who in reality is not part of the old boy nfl network.
It seems that a great deal of Bruce's communication has been obtained including emails and texts. It may implicate more than a few people into the naughty list and while league might not support this heinous behavior they also fear the financial and perception hit they would take if that list grows.
It is hard for us Washington fans to see this, but I think in context the WFT problems are now small potatoes. What Gruden did dwarfs that. Then there is Urban Meyer. Deshaun Watson. Who is next?
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby Little General » Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:41 am

Apart from this whole mess I have always said that the day Daniel Snyder became the owner of this once respected NFL franchise was the "day the music died". As a player, taking the field with the vision of him as my ultimate boss would reduce my performance level by double digit percentage points at a minimum. The whole notion of him having anything to do with the competitive environment of an NFL game is a total contradiction. Good luck against the KCFT this Sunday ha.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby Theismann to HOF » Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:16 am

Farmer Ted wrote:From ESPN:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/323 ... head-coach

"The emails came to light during the NFL's investigation into workplace misconduct with Washington, as "the league was informed of the existence of emails that raised issues beyond the scope of that investigation," according to NFL spokesperson Brian McCarthy. Senior league executives reviewed the content of more than 650,000 emails, including the one the Journal reported was written by Gruden to Allen. The NFL sent pertinent emails to the Raiders for review."

They read 650,000 WFT emails, lol? How many were discount offers to Danny for massages at local strip-malls?

I guess the good news is that they didn't find a whole hell of a lot else to condemn the WFT, because we haven't heard about it.
Yet.


I seriously doubt that is true. Roger Goodell is protecting Dan Snyder and the WFT, that's why none of the emails have been released. The NFL Commissioner is always a lap dog for the owners, at least that has been true during Goodell's time in the job.

It doesn't make any sense that the NFL conducted an extensive investigation of the WFT and the final report nor any of these emails have been released to the public. Someone was out to get Gruden and I bet it was Goodell.

There is no excuse for Gruden's emails. However, why is Gruden the only one paying a price? Bruce Allen obviously agreed with Gruden's racist, misogynistic, and homophobic emails. Otherwise, Gruden would not have kept sending the emails to him for 7 years. And I'm suire there is other dirty stuff regarding the WFT in those emails that have not seen the light of day.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby silverspring » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:24 pm

Theismann to HOF wrote:I seriously doubt that is true. Roger Goodell is protecting Dan Snyder and the WFT, that's why none of the emails have been released. The NFL Commissioner is always a lap dog for the owners, at least that has been true during Goodell's time in the job.

It doesn't make any sense that the NFL conducted an extensive investigation of the WFT and the final report nor any of these emails have been released to the public. Someone was out to get Gruden and I bet it was Goodell.

There is no excuse for Gruden's emails. However, why is Gruden the only one paying a price? Bruce Allen obviously agreed with Gruden's racist, misogynistic, and homophobic emails. Otherwise, Gruden would not have kept sending the emails to him for 7 years. And I'm suire there is other dirty stuff regarding the WFT in those emails that have not seen the light of day.


I agree that if there was something, the nfl would have got rid of snyder. They may be protecting him in some sense, but if there was a smoking gone he would be gone. A couple things to consider:

-Everyone keeps referencing this 650K email trove from the Wilkinson investigation but these emails could have just as easily come from the Schar investigation. The Schar investigation wouldn't include Snyder stuff.
-Over and over throughout the years it has been reported that Snyder does not use email. So....
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby Theismann to HOF » Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:02 pm

silverspring wrote:I agree that if there was something, the nfl would have got rid of snyder. They may be protecting him in some sense, but if there was a smoking gone he would be gone. A couple things to consider:

-Everyone keeps referencing this 650K email trove from the Wilkinson investigation but these emails could have just as easily come from the Schar investigation. The Schar investigation wouldn't include Snyder stuff.
-Over and over throughout the years it has been reported that Snyder does not use email. So....


There is a lot more that is incriminating. Otherwise, Snyder would not have been fined $10 million and forced to relinquish control of the team to his wife. And both of these "punishments" are completely laughable, by the way. There is no way that Gruden was the only one sending offensive emails to people.

Why hasn't the NFL's final report on the WFT seen the light of day? Because it's embarrassing to the league, that's why.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby silverspring » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:16 pm

Theismann to HOF wrote:There is a lot more that is incriminating. Otherwise, Snyder would not have been fined $10 million and forced to relinquish control of the team to his wife. And both of these "punishments" are completely laughable, by the way. There is no way that Gruden was the only one sending offensive emails to people.

Why hasn't the NFL's final report on the WFT seen the light of day? Because it's embarrassing to the league, that's why.


I think you are absolutely right that it won't see the light of day because it will embarrass the league but that doesn't mean it will have a red herring on Snyder.

Let's not pretend WFT is special in this. The nfl doesn't exactly have a history of releasing their investigations. And it isn't like we are their first investigation. It seems like there is always a handful of people being investigated by the nfl. They are known for making judgments without backing them up. Did we see the result from the Derrius Guice investigation? How about Reubon Foster? Or the Jerry Richardson investigation? Do you expect them to release the Deshaun Watson investigation? You think they are going to publish all the information on the current Urban Meyer investigation?
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby Farmer Ted » Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:46 pm

silverspring wrote:
Let's not pretend WFT is special in this. The nfl doesn't exactly have a history of releasing their investigations. And it isn't like we are their first investigation. It seems like there is always a handful of people being investigated by the nfl. They are known for making judgments without backing them up. Did we see the result from the Derrius Guice investigation? How about Reubon Foster? Or the Jerry Richardson investigation? Do you expect them to release the Deshaun Watson investigation? You think they are going to publish all the information on the current Urban Meyer investigation?


Yup, and they burned all the tapes they had on NE cheating during spy gate.

I heard Ben Standig say that he thought the first email about Demaurice Smith was leaked to help Smith get re-elected as head of the player's association. The owners love the last CBA and want him to stick around, so they released that email before the election and he kept his job. I buy that story.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby Theismann to HOF » Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:38 pm

silverspring wrote:I think you are absolutely right that it won't see the light of day because it will embarrass the league but that doesn't mean it will have a red herring on Snyder.

Let's not pretend WFT is special in this. The nfl doesn't exactly have a history of releasing their investigations. And it isn't like we are their first investigation. It seems like there is always a handful of people being investigated by the nfl. They are known for making judgments without backing them up. Did we see the result from the Derrius Guice investigation? How about Reubon Foster? Or the Jerry Richardson investigation? Do you expect them to release the Deshaun Watson investigation? You think they are going to publish all the information on the current Urban Meyer investigation?


I'm not pretending WFT is special at all. My point is that Gruden should not be the only one to have his career destroyed by all of this. Snyder permitted a toxic work environment for female employees for years, yet he is going to survive his scandal relatively unscathed. Snyder should be forced to sell the team, but Goodell is going to keep kissing his ass.

And I'm not sure why, either -- Goodell can't be happy with all of the empty seats that he sees duriing Washington home games nowadays.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby kbg » Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:28 pm

staggering to me that apparently we now have the worst home attendance record in the NFL. especially when once you could not get a ticket.
i have seen some more stuff on this. and i think we can assume that more and more emails will be leaked and this has a long way to go. these are from NFL general counsel Jeff Pash, who reports to Goodell. apparently, pash is another close friend of bruce (the stench always seems to come back to him).
they show that Pash rescinded a $15,000 fine that Washington was supposed to pay in 2013. i do not know details. might have been justified but not a good look.
they also show that Pash gave Washington the benefit of the doubt when sexual harassment allegations originally surfaced involving the team's cheerleaders. "I know that you are on it and would not condone something untoward," Pash wrote to Allen. so either Pash is a complete imbecile or this was pathetic arse-covering.
apparently, he also made a racist joke after Allen played a song for him that he hoped would help Washington gain traction in the Latino community.
who knows what all this will reveal about dan but as one site said, "it must have been bad because the team got fined $10 million and owner Dan Snyder stepped away from day-to-day control of the organization."
if goodell has any brains, he gets ahead of this and makes it all public. there is nothing worse than death by a thousand cuts which is what will happen if every few days more are released.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby 34Drive » Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:55 am

silverspring wrote:This Gruden stuff is pretty horrible. I'm pretty sure if they had a silver bullet on Snyder it would have been aired out by now. It just shows me how bad Allen is as well as the old boy NFL network.

Good thread title cause honestly, I think the NFL/NFLPA better walk very carefully here because they might just get the whole nfl cancelled. I wouldn't doubt there is some bad stuff out there if someone goes looking.

"Pretty horrible". Look, Ray Lewis killed a man. The blood led to his car. Yet Ray played again in the NFL. Gruden expresses his opinion and suddenly he's the most reviled man in the NFL.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby kbg » Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:52 am

34Drive wrote:"Pretty horrible". Look, Ray Lewis killed a man. The blood led to his car. Yet Ray played again in the NFL. Gruden expresses his opinion and suddenly he's the most reviled man in the NFL.


no argument that lewis mess was awful but it is very different. i can't recall if lewis was ever charged or if it went to court. i believe he screamed innocent from day one. not saying he was but if he was not charged and certainly he was never found guilty so what is the NFL supposed to do? not their ambit to investigate homicides. if the police found not enough evidence to charge him with anything, had the NFL taken action against him, you can bet his lawyers, and probably the ravens', would have screamed blue murder.
here, we have the evidence by way of the emails. gruden has little room to squirm and hardly tried to.

that was an issue with one player who might or might not have transgressed in a non-football matter. this is likely to become an issue with an entire franchise (perhaps even more) which is under the NFL's control.

but you can bet this has a long way to go. someone has these emails. so far, just a few released. no way did they happen upon those emails only. unless, and this seems beyond belief, dan and everyone did nothing wrong, you can guarantee more to be released.
look at those released so far - they condemn the actions of gruden and pash, neither of whom are with the WFT (and yet both gruden's brother and bruce - every scumbag's best mate - were but there has been nothing from them as yet). for me, this says that whoever has them is just warming up. they are generating interest. you don't lead your trump card/email first. this is now news around the sporting world. certainly getting plenty of coverage down here. everyone waiting to see what is next. it will start to focus on members of the WFT very soon, i'd guess. i suspect that the emails which may come out in the next few weeks will be much more serious and much more damaging to members of the WFT admin, especially.
also, with the current political atmosphere, especially with the cheerleaders making some fairly serious accusations, a lot of people outside the NFL and the WFT are going to be taking a much closer look and getting involved (remember that this is washington - they can't help themselves). as was said, a $10 mill fine and the removal of dan, even if replaced by his wife, is really serious stuff. i'll be stunned if much more does not come out.
i wonder if dan might have made a monumental mistake in having his wife take over. the cheerleaders are saying she has lied. who knows what is in the emails about her, but it becomes very hard for the NFL to say well we removed one snyder and he was replaced by another and now we have to replace her, but don't worry, we'll leave the team in their hands, especially with someone like bezos prepared to splash the cash. i am starting to wonder whether they are running out of sacrificial lambs and the synders might have to go. the real problem - and this is purely speculation - might come if goodell is implicated in anything in any way, even if minor. he might have to go as well.
the other 31 owners, while they might usually bind together, do not want the actions of dan and tanya to start seeing ratings drop and sponsors leaving. when it starts to cost them serious money (and every chance this could), they'll abandon dan like he is richard nixon caught with a naked schoolgirl. and does anyone really think goodell would fall on his sword to save dan?

one final point tonight - no doubt the WFT admin has a fair idea that it is not cream rising to the surface. so what does any organisation do? pulls up the drawbridge asap, but that horse might have already bolted, if the emails are in unfriendly hands - and clearly at least some are.
next option is a distraction. well winning games would not hurt but good luck there and it would be temporary. so someone came up with the bright idea to retire number 21 (at the very least, horribly late for sean taylor and 28 - darrell green - and green is such a beloved former player and respected ambassador that it staggers me they were not clever enough to include him). i believe dan has always said no numbers would be retired, but needs must. and yet, in typical WFT fashion, they have made a complete barry of the entire thing. hey, we are retiring 28 and give three days notice so many fans can't even arrange to get there and they forget to tell the family. you could not make that up. it smacks of utter desperation. to me, it screams a last minute idea, a bad one, to distract from what is coming.
what will piss me off beyond measure is if the actions of these muppets cause us to suffer salary cap penalties.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby Maddog97 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:02 am

There is speculation that the initial Gruden email was leaked by Snyder as a shot at Bruce Allen. Now when you consider the timing of Sean Taylor's number retiring here is a question. Did Snyder do this to draw attention away from other team issues? The Taylor number retirement was very short notice.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby kbg » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:27 am

Maddog97 wrote:There is speculation that the initial Gruden email was leaked by Snyder as a shot at Bruce Allen. Now when you consider the timing of Sean Taylor's number retiring here is a question. Did Snyder do this to draw attention away from other team issues? The Taylor number retirement was very short notice.


had not thought about snyder leaking to have a crack at allen but the retiring of the number as a distraction very definitely what i thought in my post. agree with that.
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Re: Six degrees of the WFT-The Jon Gruden fallout

Postby SkinsGuru » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:52 am

Maddog97 wrote:There is speculation that the initial Gruden email was leaked by Snyder as a shot at Bruce Allen. Now when you consider the timing of Sean Taylor's number retiring here is a question. Did Snyder do this to draw attention away from other team issues? The Taylor number retirement was very short notice.


discovered during an electronic forensic investigation is not leaked.
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