muhammed ali RIP

[kbg]

not sure if this is the right place for this but heard the very sad news about muhammed ali's death this afternoon.
i know he was a polarising figure but i was a big fan. boxing has never been the same since. truly a legend and the world is a poorer place for his passing.
i had the chance to talk to joe bugner a few years ago. joe went the distance with ali twice and also frazier, so no mug. at the time, tyson was in his prime and many were saying that he was superior to ali. i asked bugner his thoughts. he could hardly stop laughing at the idea of ali v tyson. his view was that it would have been one of the most one-sided bouts you'd have seen. he did not believe that tyson could have landed a punch on ali. he was simply too quick. also said that the bloke could hit you just as hard when he was backpedalling as when he was going forward. a very rare skill.
RIP.

[Maddog97]

He was polarizing but he left an impact on boxing. His departure, which was overdue, left the heavyweight division very weak. Ultimately boxing has declined in popularity. I remembered listening to the Frazier/Ali fight and the sadness of many on his defeat. I remember people telling him not to fight Foreman. Foreman was going to not only beat him but give him permanent injury. And I remember him and Howard Cosell going lip to lip in verbal battle. But I remember my stepfather, a 30 year Marine, not being so critical of him because he refused the draft. His comment was he did not try to run, he stayed and took his punishment. He could dance around the ring and avoid a punch when younger, and later he took way too many punches, but he never backed off a fight.

[SKINSfanatic1963]

the us government made a scapegoat out of the champ because he would not join the military.I know of no athelete who lost more because of his refusal to take part in military activities than he did. he never ran either! best fighter i ever saw in his prime! truly a man who changed things for the better.

[Maddog97]

the us government made a scapegoat out of the champ because he would not join the military.I know of no athelete who lost more because of his refusal to take part in military activities than he did. he never ran either! best fighter i ever saw in his prime! truly a man who changed things for the better.

But due to losing time in the ring during his banishment, we never truly saw him in his prime. He will be missed.

[SKINSfanatic1963]

people call him a draft dodger,but he was not cause he stayed here and fought instead of running off to canada and not fighting. remember in 1991 saddam hussein had a bunch of americans of all colors hostage,ali played a major role in getting them released.he will always be the champ to me and not just for the way he fought in the ring but because of how he fought outside the ring for himself and others of all colors.
the us government gave him the presidential medal of freedom a few years back,so i do not see them holding a grudge either.In my view,he was the most popular muslim of all time.

[kbg]

people call him a draft dodger,but he was not cause he stayed here and fought instead of running off to canada and not fighting. remember in 1991 saddam hussein had a bunch of americans of all colors hostage,ali played a major role in getting them released.he will always be the champ to me and not just for the way he fought in the ring but because of how he fought outside the ring for himself and others of all colors.
the us government gave him the presidential medal of freedom a few years back,so i do not see them holding a grudge either.In my view,he was the most popular muslim of all time.

i think he might also be the most popular american of all time.

[SKINSfanatic1963]

i think he might also be the most popular american of all time.

maybe? but i would argue that george washington,abe lincoln and maybe even JFK are probably the most popular americans before ali,maybe even throw babe ruth in there too. all of them to this day are loved and respected all over the world by newer generations of the world's youth.
me and my friends here were fortunate to see ali come back and box after being banned for refusing to enter the military.if there was 2 guys we followed in the 1970s it was ali and evel knievel who were both one of a kind atheletes. kids past 1980 never really had guys like that over here anyway.

[kbg]

maybe? but i would argue that george washington,abe lincoln and maybe even JFK are probably the most popular americans before ali,maybe even throw babe ruth in there too. all of them to this day are loved and respected all over the world by newer generations of the world's youth.
me and my friends here were fortunate to see ali come back and box after being banned for refusing to enter the military.if there was 2 guys we followed in the 1970s it was ali and evel knievel who were both one of a kind atheletes. kids past 1980 never really had guys like that over here anyway.

quite possibly, though i'd put my money on ali. washington, lincoln, jfk more important in obvious ways, but the first two especially would tend to have far more resonance locally (as in america).
babe ruth, not a chance. i would suggest he is certainly a famous name in the states (much like don bradman here - indeed, i'd argue that with cricket's greater worldwide reach into india/pakistan/parts of asia, bradman would be a far more famous name internationally than ruth) and with people in say parts of europe/australia who are around my generation, or either side. but as an example, i doubt 90% of kids in australia under 30 would have a clue who he was. and then when you move to africa/asia/middle east/russia etc, unless they are baseball fans (and not too many of them in africa) they'd have no idea. ali is a name they know. and most of the same people (at least in africa) would not have a clue re most american presidents. they would know obama of course. the internet age may be changing this but i wonder how much. those kids are not googling long dead historical figures from far distant countries.
a while back, i had the chance to spend a year travelling through africa and parts of asia. i was utterly staggered that what was so important those of us in the west meant nothing there. had no relevance to their lives, as much as we all thought they should realise that it did (which was a bit condescending of us).
at the time (very late 80s, just before i moved to DC - indeed, i was in the cameroons and thereabouts when we thrashed denver for the superbowl win and it took me a month to track down the news. no one had the slightest interest. eventually i got it from a guard at a US embassy and it took me about 20 minutes to convince him to tell me, as he seemed to think it was some sort of trick), the two people whose names they knew were ali and maradona (nowadays, i'll bet it is messi). they could not have cared less about distant politicians and 'world leaders'. and even less for historical ones. really opened my eyes to how focused we become on what is relevant to us and how we automatically assume it is relevant to others.
evel knievel was certainly a big name here in those days, but i don't think we ever thought of him as a sportsman or athlete. he was always an entertainer to us. one of a kind, though.

[SKINSfanatic1963]

babe ruth, not a chance. i would suggest he is certainly a famous name in the states

Disagree with this big time. in ww2,read what the japanese used to say to american gis when they charged them about babe ruth. he may not be popular in the islamic countries,but worldwide ruth is as popular today elsewhere as he ever was.

[kbg]

Disagree with this big time. in ww2,read what the japanese used to say to american gis when they charged them about babe ruth. he may not be popular in the islamic countries,but worldwide ruth is as popular today elsewhere as he ever was.

the worst thing about this forum is that pretty much everyone else is based 10,000 k away. just the sort of topic for a long chat over a beer. i'm on the other end of the spectrum. ww2 was a very long time ago and a great deal of africa/asia not islamic. i'm not questioning ruth's place in history or his ability or his stature in baseball. but i would genuinely be stunned if he was 1/100th as popular as Ali is throughout most places in the world - outside the states and baseball nations.
i'm on one other forum - a cigar forum which has members all over the world - based in australia but the majority of members in the states but plenty elsewhere. i might put up the question there and see what response follows. i might find i am completely out of touch.

[kbg]

i forgot the other guy that every kid in every village knew at the time, along with maradona - michael jordan. presume now it is lebron, but back then, every kid knew michael jordan.

[kbg]

posted the query - i think you can link in on http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/t ... babe-ruth/ if you want a look. don't think you have to join.

one of the posts put this link up, which is fascinating. puts things in some sort of perspective (although i used to play hockey - only called field hockey on the north american continent - so not such a surprise to me). table tennis? we forget that the fans of these sports are as dedicated as we are about our chosen sports.
https://thecauldron.si.com/just-who-is- ... .smiehzl4c

[Moe]

Even though I was too young to recall his hey-day, I have vague memories of his waning years, specifically his loss to Holmes when he was a shell of his former self, but his reputation and accomplishments were still very much alive. I can't think of any other athlete who was so remarkable at his craft, but combined that with the personality, strength of conviction and larger sense of his place in the world than Ali. He was singular in that regard and I cannot imagine another approaching his level.

My father said he was in an airport once and Ali and his entourage came through. He didn't meet him but just watched him pass through in awe. He said he's never seen, nor felt, the magnetism that permeated the room when Ali passed though it; he said you could just feel something buzzing and it drew you to him. My father isn't one to be impressed by celebrity having personally met with sitting US Presidents from Nixon through to Clinton, countless corporate CEO's an dozens of pro athletes/celebrities in the past (I was 16 at Dulles airport with him when he spotted Joe DiMaggio and we shook his hand, dad was pumped about that since Joe was his boyhood hero), but he said Ali had some unexplainable energy to him that was unlike anyone else he had ever encountered.

[SKINSfanatic1963]

Ali was a good and peaceful man. there is never gonna be anybody like him here again.at least the dalai lama is a redskins fan though!

[kbg]

Ali was a good and peaceful man. there is never gonna be anybody like him here again.at least the dalai lama is a redskins fan though!

love that. will definitely use it.