Your 2019 Offseason Plan

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:26 pm

silverspring wrote:I will be surprised if Drew Lock is on the board at our 1st round pick. I think he goes top 5.


I think he is realistically the 2nd qb after Haskins. Good chance he is gone top-10 though, not sure about 5. If he is there at #15 and our staff likes him, I'm good with the pick...but that's not to say that he is a polished and finished product. Doubt he would fall to Round 2 like he did in my above mock, but if so, I jump all over that pick

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby kbg » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:07 pm

VegasSkinsFan wrote:I think he is realistically the 2nd qb after Haskins. Good chance he is gone top-10 though, not sure about 5. If he is there at #15 and our staff likes him, I'm good with the pick...but that's not to say that he is a polished and finished product. Doubt he would fall to Round 2 like he did in my above mock, but if so, I jump all over that pick


more and more, the thing that is scaring me is that we end up with murray as our first pick.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:36 pm

kbg wrote:more and more, the thing that is scaring me is that we end up with murray as our first pick.


I'm more scared if its Daniel Jones. Like I said, Drew Lock would be the only QB I would take in Rd 1..and agree with Silverspring that he probably doesn't make it that far. That's not saying I think Lock is a lock guaranteed franchise guy, just saying that he would be the 1st round prospect I would take a chance on if I had to. I'm still in the camp of a Round 3 or later developmental guy, but wouldn't lose my mind if Lock fell and we got him. Could still find some good players on Day 2 to help us with impact guys. I do like the Round 3-4 corners too. Rounds 3-5 offer some interesting safeties. Those last 2 sentences are meant assuming neither CB or S is taken earlier.
Back to Murray, there are a lot of things to really like about him but also a lot that should make fans and more importantly the FO pause. Best case scenario is that (a) he isn't there at 15, or (b) he is and we aren't interested..but some other team is....which could land us a couple of extra picks.
EDIT ^^^ to piggy back on that last sentence, the only teams following us in the draft that MIGHT be interested in a QB could be TN @ 19, Pitt @ 20, or OAK @ 24 and 27. TN might not be enamored with Mariotta who only has 1 yr left, PITT might look to the future once Roth is gone but this is the lowest chance I see happening of the 3 teams. OAK: only happens if they decide to cut Carr to get our of his contract, maybe looking for a new franchise guy to be ready for their move to Las Vegas...but not overly realistic.
Of those and what It would take for me to consider accepting :
TN : 1-19 (19), 2-20 (51), 5-19 (147)
PITT: 1-20 (20), 2-21 (52), 6-2(162), 6-21( 180 )
OAK : 1-24(24), 1-27(27)
^^ would any reading take one of those, and if so, which one?

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby kbg » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:10 pm

VegasSkinsFan wrote:I'm more scared if its Daniel Jones. Like I said, Drew Lock would be the only QB I would take in Rd 1..and agree with Silverspring that he probably doesn't make it that far. That's not saying I think Lock is a lock guaranteed franchise guy, just saying that he would be the 1st round prospect I would take a chance on if I had to. I'm still in the camp of a Round 3 or later developmental guy, but wouldn't lose my mind if Lock fell and we got him. Could still find some good players on Day 2 to help us with impact guys. I do like the Round 3-4 corners too. Rounds 3-5 offer some interesting safeties. Those last 2 sentences are meant assuming neither CB or S is taken earlier.
Back to Murray, there are a lot of things to really like about him but also a lot that should make fans and more importantly the FO pause. Best case scenario is that (a) he isn't there at 15, or (b) he is and we aren't interested..but some other team is....which could land us a couple of extra picks.
EDIT ^^^ to piggy back on that last sentence, the only teams following us in the draft that MIGHT be interested in a QB could be TN @ 19, Pitt @ 20, or OAK @ 24 and 27. TN might not be enamored with Mariotta who only has 1 yr left, PITT might look to the future once Roth is gone but this is the lowest chance I see happening of the 3 teams. OAK: only happens if they decide to cut Carr to get our of his contract, maybe looking for a new franchise guy to be ready for their move to Las Vegas...but not overly realistic.
Of those and what It would take for me to consider accepting :
TN : 1-19 (19), 2-20 (51), 5-19 (147)
PITT: 1-20 (20), 2-21 (52), 6-2(162), 6-21( 180 )
OAK : 1-24(24), 1-27(27)
^^ would any reading take one of those, and if so, which one?


for me, happy to trade back if a decent deal but it would also depend on who else was there. if a top player for one of our many holes, make it harder to go back.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:06 pm

kbg wrote:for me, happy to trade back if a decent deal but it would also depend on who else was there. if a top player for one of our many holes, make it harder to go back.


totally agree, was just looking to see which teams might be looking for their next QB...assuming one of the top ones fell to #15 AND that we didn't want that person.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby Moe » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:19 am

VegasSkinsFan wrote:I'm more scared if its Daniel Jones. Like I said, Drew Lock would be the only QB I would take in Rd 1..and agree with Silverspring that he probably doesn't make it that far. That's not saying I think Lock is a lock guaranteed franchise guy, just saying that he would be the 1st round prospect I would take a chance on if I had to. I'm still in the camp of a Round 3 or later developmental guy, but wouldn't lose my mind if Lock fell and we got him.

This QB crop is interesting to me. Like many, the top end seems less impressive than what some drafts provide, but I think it might provide some sneaky depth.
Haskins- physically capable and put up great numbers, but had a lot of surrounding talent, limited experience and OSU seems to churn out QB's who put up solid stats but don't translate to NFL. He intrigues me anyway.
Murray- wonderful athlete but again has limited experience, might need a specialized offense and the size thing just makes me nervous, at least at 15.
Jones- seems solid and did a good job at a historically poor program but he doesn't wow me..and that seems like a both a silly reason not to like him but a reason to think he might be just another guy.
Lock- a lot to like in terms of his physical talent, experience and arm but the knock is that he's not terribly accurate and might be just a guy who leans on his arm strength. With coaching and work ethic that's fixable and i think he's one of the more interesting guys in the draft.
Finley- doesn't get much pub but put up solid numbers and had success at NCSU which (IMO oddly) struggles to sustain any real success. He has experience and is noted for his accuracy, but doesn't strike me as a guy who can carry you and make enough plays...curious to hear everyone else's opinion though.
Thorsen- sneaky favorite of mine because i love his experience, he has good enough tools, did pretty well on a limited talent team and could come in a mid round at a lower pricetag.
Stidham- experience again, but when I watch him he looks like any number of 2/3rd stringers to me.

Back to Murray, there are a lot of things to really like about him but also a lot that should make fans and more importantly the FO pause. Best case scenario is that (a) he isn't there at 15, or (b) he is and we aren't interested..but some other team is....which could land us a couple of extra picks.

He doesn't seem to fit what Gruden would like so I think if he's there then he could be enticing for a team to move up.

EDIT ^^^ to piggy back on that last sentence, the only teams following us in the draft that MIGHT be interested in a QB could be TN @ 19, Pitt @ 20, or OAK @ 24 and 27. TN might not be enamored with Mariotta who only has 1 yr left, PITT might look to the future once Roth is gone but this is the lowest chance I see happening of the 3 teams. OAK: only happens if they decide to cut Carr to get our of his contract, maybe looking for a new franchise guy to be ready for their move to Las Vegas...but not overly realistic.
Of those and what It would take for me to consider accepting :
TN : 1-19 (19), 2-20 (51), 5-19 (147)
PITT: 1-20 (20), 2-21 (52), 6-2(162), 6-21( 180 )
OAK : 1-24(24), 1-27(27)
^^ would any reading take one of those, and if so, which one?

TN is saying the right things about Mariotta so I think they are out on QB high. Carr's contract kicked in a week or so back so his money is on their books and he's playing next year for them, not to say they won't make a move but at this point he's an expensive cut and I get the sense Gruden is looking to build that team and see what/if Carr can do with better talent. IMO it's the smart move because it buys him time with the built in excuse that Carr simply isn't good enough. Pitt used a 3rd on Rudolph last year so I can't see them going high on QB either. Later on in the 1st I could see the Chargers taking a QB, maybe McVay wants more than what Goff can offer and NE is always a wild card.
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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby skins7ny » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:25 am

I would call up the Cardinals and see if they would take our 2nd-rounder for QB Josh Rosen.
There is a lot of noise that they want Kyler Murray, maybe they would be willing to cash out on Rosen.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby Moe » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:48 pm

Looks like Ravens are trading Flacco to Denver, terms can't be disclosed until league starts Mar 3.
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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby silverspring » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:42 pm

skins7ny wrote:I would call up the Cardinals and see if they would take our 2nd-rounder for QB Josh Rosen.
There is a lot of noise that they want Kyler Murray, maybe they would be willing to cash out on Rosen.


I would happily give up our 1st round pick for Rosen. He is still on his rookie contract for 3 more years and then the 5th year option.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby lorimike » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:53 pm

Moe wrote:Looks like Ravens are trading Flacco to Denver, terms can't be disclosed until league starts Mar 3.



Mid round pick.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby kbg » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:03 pm

lorimike wrote:Mid round pick.


report i saw says 4th. not a bad deal for the broncos.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby lorimike » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:13 pm

kbg wrote:report i saw says 4th. not a bad deal for the broncos.


Meh, I don't know that he is going to do any better than Keenan. Teams that do this stuff think they are getting the Flacco of super bowl lore. Instead all they are getting is band aid that will be no better than they guy he replaces.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby kbg » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:24 pm

lorimike wrote:Meh, I don't know that he is going to do any better than Keenan. Teams that do this stuff think they are getting the Flacco of super bowl lore. Instead all they are getting is band aid that will be no better than they guy he replaces.


i don't expect him to do wonders - and if i recall, that superbowl was more on defence, as well as flacco played? - which i am sure all teams remember. but just a 4th for a QB who should be competent for a year or two would not be the worst thing. i honestly thought they'd get more for him.
one of the problems in the NFL is that QBs see monumentally silly money being thrown at them to play well into the 30s. a few will still play well (or at earlier levels) but most will be okay/competent at best. but that is what you get, these days. provided a team does not overpay, worse options.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby lorimike » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:31 pm

kbg wrote:i don't expect him to do wonders - and if i recall, that superbowl was more on defence, as well as flacco played? - which i am sure all teams remember. but just a 4th for a QB who should be competent for a year or two would not be the worst thing. i honestly thought they'd get more for him.
one of the problems in the NFL is that QBs see monumentally silly money being thrown at them to play well into the 30s. a few will still play well (or at earlier levels) but most will be okay/competent at best. but that is what you get, these days. provided a team does not overpay, worse options.


Joe is a guy who can get a team to 6-8 wins. He'll get some first downs when he has team fooled. But father time is undefeated. On 3rd down he is now more of a guy that will get a team 5 yards when they needed 10. Not all that much different than Alex Smith to be honest. Or Case Keenum.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:04 pm

skins7ny wrote:I would call up the Cardinals and see if they would take our 2nd-rounder for QB Josh Rosen.
There is a lot of noise that they want Kyler Murray, maybe they would be willing to cash out on Rosen.


That would be interesting.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:05 pm

silverspring wrote:I would happily give up our 1st round pick for Rosen. He is still on his rookie contract for 3 more years and then the 5th year option.


If we traded for Rosen, to me I would rather give them the 2020 1st than this years. Use this years picks to fill out the team and get Rosen a couple of weapons

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby Moe » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:26 am

kbg wrote:i don't expect him to do wonders - and if i recall, that superbowl was more on defence, as well as flacco played? - which i am sure all teams remember. but just a 4th for a QB who should be competent for a year or two would not be the worst thing. i honestly thought they'd get more for him.
one of the problems in the NFL is that QBs see monumentally silly money being thrown at them to play well into the 30s. a few will still play well (or at earlier levels) but most will be okay/competent at best. but that is what you get, these days. provided a team does not overpay, worse options.

To be fair to him, Flacco was tremendous in their Super Bowl run. He threw 11 td's and 0 int's through the playoffs and to the championship. It was an historic performance, and rather out of his norm and what led him to that monster contract. IMO, he doesn't move the needle for Denver that much unless they really up their surrounding talent. He still has a great arm but he's pretty immobile and as others have noted seems to drifted into risk averse mode lately which doesn't win you a whole lot of games unless you get a lot of help. AFC West is a tough division and I think this is a media move as much as anything.
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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby Moe » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:36 am

Cap info, some info pulled from WaPo:
-currently have $17.7m in space
-Scherff set for $12.5 in last year, new deal would open space this year
Possible releases:
-Zach Brown $3m dead and $5.75 free this year, post June 1 $1.5m dead in '19 and '20 with $7.25m savings
-Reed $3.6m dead and $6.01m savings
-Davis $1.3 dead and $4.9 savings
-Norman due $14.5m this year, releasing would be $6m dead with $8.5 saved.
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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby silverspring » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:19 pm

VegasSkinsFan wrote:If we traded for Rosen, to me I would rather give them the 2020 1st than this years. Use this years picks to fill out the team and get Rosen a couple of weapons


You got to pay to play. We can cut a couple players to get weapons.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby silverspring » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:21 pm

lorimike wrote:Meh, I don't know that he is going to do any better than Keenan. Teams that do this stuff think they are getting the Flacco of super bowl lore. Instead all they are getting is band aid that will be no better than they guy he replaces.


I agree. Just a lateral move. A bunch of money for a guy who isn't long term solutions. But way cheaper than Alex Smith especially because they can cut him with no dead cap.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby bigcmr » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:22 pm

VegasSkinsFan wrote:If we traded for Rosen, to me I would rather give them the 2020 1st than this years. Use this years picks to fill out the team and get Rosen a couple of weapons


No don't do that.
1. If gruden stinks it up this year. We will be screwing ourselves out of a good draft pick for our new coach in 2020 to start out with.
2. Rosen is not the kind of drama queen we want in this circus. (remember all of his pre draft crap)

At this point me must roll with what we have at QB and draft one.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby kbg » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:39 pm

bigcmr wrote:No don't do that.
1. If gruden stinks it up this year. We will be screwing ourselves out of a good draft pick for our new coach in 2020 to start out with.
2. Rosen is not the kind of drama queen we want in this circus. (remember all of his pre draft crap)

At this point me must roll with what we have at QB and draft one.


agreed, but i would not be using a high pick.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:45 am

bigcmr wrote:No don't do that.
1. If gruden stinks it up this year. We will be screwing ourselves out of a good draft pick for our new coach in 2020 to start out with.
2. Rosen is not the kind of drama queen we want in this circus. (remember all of his pre draft crap)

At this point me must roll with what we have at QB and draft one.


Never said I would actually trade for Rosen, just that IF we did I would rather give up the 2020 pick then the 2019 pick. I get the feeling that even if Gruden gets fired, then O'Connell probably gets promoted...so he would have to be on board with the trade anyways being the new OC.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby fanfromarizona » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:45 am

Moe wrote:Cap info, some info pulled from WaPo:
-currently have $17.7m in space
-Scherff set for $12.5 in last year, new deal would open space this year
Possible releases:
-Zach Brown $3m dead and $5.75 free this year, post June 1 $1.5m dead in '19 and '20 with $7.25m savings
-Reed $3.6m dead and $6.01m savings
-Davis $1.3 dead and $4.9 savings
-Norman due $14.5m this year, releasing would be $6m dead with $8.5 saved.


Mason Foster 250K dead cap with $4M savings.

If it's me, Davis and Foster would be cut. Puts us at 26.7 Million.
Restructure Scherff/Reed/Alex Smith. Scherff restructure alone puts us around ~29-30M.
Janky Spanky.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:34 pm

fanfromarizona wrote:Mason Foster 250K dead cap with $4M savings.

If it's me, Davis and Foster would be cut. Puts us at 26.7 Million.
Restructure Scherff/Reed/Alex Smith. Scherff restructure alone puts us around ~29-30M.


^^^ that's exactly how I would start off FA. $30M is plenty to get a stud, and since I highly doubt we sign a qb like Foles, I might consider using that cap space to sign one of the top edge rushers. Dee Ford, Dante Fowler, Za'Darius Smith, Jadaveon Clowney, Ziggy Ansah would be names to look at. What I mean by that is I don't want a bunch of B and C guys with that money..sign one stud.
Some names at other positions
ILB : Deone Buchanon, Jordan Hicks, Kwon Alexander
S : Landon Collins, Tyrann Mathieu, Tre Boston, Adrian Amos, Haha Clinton-Dix
WR: Golden Tate, Devin Funchess, Tyrell Williams
You can sign a top Safety and then @15 draft ILB Devin White or CB Greedy Williams/Byron Murphy/Deandre Baker...and now your back 7 is fairly legit. Or you can go offense or edge with that pick..whatever, just tossing ideas on what can be done with only $30M

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby kbg » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:12 pm

VegasSkinsFan wrote:^^^ that's exactly how I would start off FA. $30M is plenty to get a stud, and since I highly doubt we sign a qb like Foles, I might consider using that cap space to sign one of the top edge rushers. Dee Ford, Dante Fowler, Za'Darius Smith, Jadaveon Clowney, Ziggy Ansah would be names to look at. What I mean by that is I don't want a bunch of B and C guys with that money..sign one stud.
Some names at other positions
ILB : Deone Buchanon, Jordan Hicks, Kwon Alexander
S : Landon Collins, Tyrann Mathieu, Tre Boston, Adrian Amos, Haha Clinton-Dix
WR: Golden Tate, Devin Funchess, Tyrell Williams
You can sign a top Safety and then @15 draft ILB Devin White or CB Greedy Williams/Byron Murphy/Deandre Baker...and now your back 7 is fairly legit. Or you can go offense or edge with that pick..whatever, just tossing ideas on what can be done with only $30M


i just can't see giants letting collins out the door but he'd be my first pick amongst those you've named. be very happy with that. i'd look to keep P smith at higher than we might wish, and haha CD, at a much lower deal than he might have hoped for 12 months ago, and keep an eye out for a very solid LG. i'd resign AP.
foster and davis can go. if davis wanted to play for the love of it and took a million, perhaps 1.5, then okay with that.
definitely restructure scherff and possibly reed. i'd even look to seeing if we could restructure A smith so more money to him this year. the sooner we clear as much of that the better. it is a nightmare but one of the few that is not really our making, for me. i think that the smith trade/contract was, overall, a good one but it went horribly wrong with the injury. i'm sure we have insurance but that does not help the cap, of course.
i'd steer a mile clear of any of the FA QBs unless a decent one was suddenly available for very cheap dosh. highly unlikely.
i'd trade back, if the opp arises, unless someone really good falls to us. BPA is okay there (avoiding QBs). take a QB fifth or lower as a bit of a hail mary. they have said for years, that they like mccoy, that mccoy could start, that they would be happy with him. time to find out. i do not expect great things. add johnson as backup and a draft pick. if/when it falls short, we should be rid of gruden, the mccoy experiment and fingers crossed, bruce A. and have a really good QB from the next draft. if it works, even better.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby bigcmr » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:01 am

VegasSkinsFan wrote:Never said I would actually trade for Rosen, just that IF we did I would rather give up the 2020 pick then the 2019 pick. I get the feeling that even if Gruden gets fired, then O'Connell probably gets promoted...so he would have to be on board with the trade anyways being the new OC.


I see what your getting at. But I would make it a point to not trade any picks in 2020.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby bigcmr » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:04 am

fanfromarizona wrote:Mason Foster 250K dead cap with $4M savings.

If it's me, Davis and Foster would be cut. Puts us at 26.7 Million.
Restructure Scherff/Reed/Alex Smith. Scherff restructure alone puts us around ~29-30M.


I agree Mason Foster and Davis gone. But here is the main question? If we just bite the bullet and cut Alex Smith? How long do we have dead cap money on his contract?

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby kbg » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:39 am

bigcmr wrote:I agree Mason Foster and Davis gone. But here is the main question? If we just bite the bullet and cut Alex Smith? How long do we have dead cap money on his contract?


someone will have the figures but my understanding is that will still cost us truckloads over the next couple of years.

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Re: Your 2019 Offseason Plan

Postby VegasSkinsFan » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:38 pm

bigcmr wrote:I see what your getting at. But I would make it a point to not trade any picks in 2020.


You should know me by now, I never want to give up a pick..unless it means I am getting more of them :)


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